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Post by NS-R on May 14, 2003 14:18:06 GMT
KJR - welcome to the forum - it's good to get marshalling views as well. Mike How spoke to me about the XR incident and apologized about the breakdown in communications - I'm interested to see what happens to prevent it happening in the future though...it wasn't exactly the best place to be with the full field passing me! If you were waving the yellow - fair play - I was told by the other drivers that it wasn't out on that lap but obviously they didn't see it! You are right about the lines - some drivers are worse than others but it must be difficult for the FF / Caterham guys to see the lines...I didn't think there was any problem with the Clark lines though ? Nick www.ns-r.co.uk |
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2003 14:52:35 GMT
Hi Wedgie,
Id probably know you if I see you as im normally on the daewoo straight too!
Nick - the only person who can decide to red flag the race is the clerk of the course and he couldnt be reached to be told of the situation and therefore make such a decision. Although im not sure how the marshalls at clark didnt see you and radio in unless they were down the hill a bit and you were along the straight?
Wedgie is right, at the start of each session someone would knock down the stick then everyone could do as they please lol ;D And clarks is very bad but has been asked for by putting the ecoblock down there.
Dave.
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Post by NS-R on May 14, 2003 15:01:14 GMT
..to be fair to the Clark marshalls, they probably couldn't see over the brow of the corner...
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Post by Big Bad Wedgie on May 14, 2003 15:14:25 GMT
Nick, as a general rule there is not a problem with corner cutting at Clark but, as I said, the Mini's were a joke/disgrace. Why I don't know - combination of front wheel drive, basically road cars on a racing circuit, trying to maintain momentum/speed onto Railway. As to the yellow flag for your "incident". I may have missed you immediately after the "incident", as I said the layout of the circuit at Clark means that the flag post at Clark cannot see all the way round to the flag post at railway. Also there can be problems with a shortage of marshals available resulting in a post only having one flag marshal who is trying to look more than one way at the same time. This even happened at the weekends F3/GT meeting, the premier meeting for car racing at Knockhill this year  , where I was the only Flag marshal on Clark on Sunday! KJR |
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Post by NS-R on May 14, 2003 15:25:05 GMT
That must be a nightmare for you - I always thought that there were a couple of guys helping out at each post with the flags - obviously not... I'll have to take a new novel approach - stay on the bloody track! |
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Post by JamesHerriot on May 14, 2003 16:49:58 GMT
Wedgie, a wee suggestion, can you go back to the postings people have placed about the corner cutting & wet/dry race issues , read them again and instead of just taking the party line on this or any other subject can you answer the points that were raised, heres a few pointers for you, when going through the chicane in a zetec f/ford on a good dry day you can be doing 90mph and your backside is about 65mm of the ground climbing up the hill to the chicane, the line CANNOT be seen, remember no plastic bollards were hit in the f/ford qualifying session that was red flagged, they had just crossed the white line so how can you be guilty of something you don`t know your doing ? Onto the wet dry race, where do you get that nonsense about the drivers not having to go out on slicks, as already explained there had been a shower when the cars were waiting to go out but it had stopped and we were happy that it was slick conditions but the cars went out for two laps and the rain p*ssed down , they formed up on the grid, we ran into race control and made it perfectly clear it was dangerous to start the race in these conditions but they ignored us and started it anyway. we then had the absurd situation with Alan going round in the lead waving at us trying to get it stopped. now is there any of this you don`t understand ?
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Post by Big Bad Wedgie on May 14, 2003 17:38:54 GMT
James,
Crossing the white line at the chicane - basically what you are saying is that you are not in control of the car you are driving !
I had assumed that racing drivers who raced/practiced at a particular circuit, on more than one occasion, would know how quickly they can get through each corner whether they can see though it or not.
I am well aware that as a racing driver you are trying to get round the circuit as quickly as you can but this has to be done within the rules.
Wet Race - it should matter very little to a driver what the organiser declares a race to be. If a driver thinks it is too wet/dangerous for slicks then he/she can change to wets or not race. If as many drivers as you implied were unhappy then they could have voted with their feet and refused to race on slicks.
K
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Post by DuncVincent on May 14, 2003 17:49:50 GMT
Have you ever driven a race car at speed W??
Trust me,,there will be no more corner cutting after what went on at the circuit today!!!.
And as for the clerk,,,,the mans a bafoon!!!
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Post by Big Bad Wedgie on May 14, 2003 17:58:38 GMT
Duncan, no I have never driven a race car at speed, I am well aware of my own limitations as a driver  , what difference does that make. The principles of driving are the same whether you are on the road or on a circuit - you drive within your own ability, those of your car, the conditions and the rules. As for your opinion of the clerk, I will have to take your word for it as I was at Clarks all weekend  K |
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Post by JamesHerriot on May 14, 2003 18:32:19 GMT
Wedgie, your still not seeing it are you (SMRC spin doctor methinks) ZETEC=90MPH=UPHILL APPROACH=NARROW GAP= ARSE 65MM OFF DECK==== LINE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT EACH LAP !,,,,,,,,,WET RACE , cars on grid asking for delayed start in order to change to wets== race started by said baffoon ! do you get it now , they had decided they wanted to race on wets .
Knock Knock Mcflie !
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Post by Big Bad Wedgie on May 14, 2003 19:02:03 GMT
James,
I have decided that there is no point in getting into an argument over this and as we obviously have different views on this. My intention when I got involved in this discussion was to offer a different point of view, as the board seems to be populated mostly by drivers.
"(SMRC spin doctor methinks)" - I don't think so. I seriously considered not returning to marshaling this year because I was fed up with the amount of time wasting that happened during last years meetings. I only came back because I missed the racing and because the SMRC are short of marshals as it is.
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2003 19:13:15 GMT
James, if you are as rude to Nick as you are to Wedgie in that reply then I think that might be half the problem!
I have driven round at race speed and if Nick or anyone want so say im slower then fine, Gorden Shedden has taken me round at race speed in a caterham!
I too do not want to get into a argument over this but as a driver I would make two points about the two corners!
1). Chicane - if I walk round the circuit look at where the bollard is in comparison to the line and work out if im 'x' amount away from the bollard I will miss the line whether im drving a ff or a double decker bus!
2). Clarks - this is more difficult as its your entry speed which will decide how far you are forced onto the ecoblock and over the line you go! If I went into the corner at one speed which meant I was going so fast that I ran wide onto the eco block and over the line im confident I could adjust my speed slightly slower to avoid doing so the next time!
As for the wet its up to you, if they said the race was going ahead it was then up to you to come off or not! Ive been at trackdays and packed up for home because ive decided not to take my car out! This seems to be what Derek Butcher did - bugger this its too wet, no fun, lets call it a day!
Dave.
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Post by JamesHerriot on May 14, 2003 20:38:36 GMT
Dave, I don`t think any of us wanted to get into an argument about this and as for being rude to Nick we found it impossible to reason with the man, he was arrogant in the extreme and his actions could have left someone seriously injured. your comments about the bollard and white line are interesting, there are something like fourteen slots for the bollards (correct me if i`m wrong with that figure) and they never seem to be in the same one two meetings in a row, we have even had them moved around between qualifying and the race altering the line of the track ! maybe if you were in your double decker bus you would be high enough to see the distance between the bollard and the white line no matter what slot it was in ! as for Derek pulling out , he was quite right considering the dangerous conditions but if they had all done that there would have been no race, what was wrong with letting them start on wet tyres ?
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2003 20:52:28 GMT
3 slots mate! And your probably right about them moving because they would get demolished and then have to be replaced after every session! But now the wall is there that problem should be no more as the wall wont move unless anyone should hit it (I hope no one does!)
Wet sounds well weird, especially as it was the second last race! Should send Nick out in the peeing rain in a FFord/caterham or legend and see how scary it is!
Dave.
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Post by akirkaldy on May 14, 2003 21:34:30 GMT
3 slots mate! And your probably right about them moving because they would get demolished and then have to be replaced after every session! But now the wall is there that problem should be no more as the wall wont move unless anyone should hit it (I hope no one does!) Wet sounds well weird, especially as it was the second last race! Should send Nick out in the peeing rain in a FFord/caterham or legend and see how scary it is! Dave. There was actually 7 slots per side, but now ony 1!!! And as for the tyres on the left its not those we are talking about, i hope we never hit them too!! My thread has caused a war, NICE!! |
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