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Post by XR2 Baz on Aug 8, 2004 13:47:02 GMT
Whoah, just been watching the second race live...from the comfort of my couch of course, and in between the DIY jobs. Gotta say that was one of the best touring car races this year, cracking racing. I see the floppies only lasted a couple of minutes and that they weren't replaced!! Wise choice I think That said, (and at the risk of sparking a similar heated debate to early last year), what about the corner cutting? Certainly every single driver was 'straightening out' the chicane...why can't we get away with lines like that? If that was a club meeting they'd all be disqualified Baz
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Post by Catriona on Aug 8, 2004 19:25:09 GMT
What, only watching it on tv instead of at the track? Part-timer! Just kidding, of course, but you missed a very good day's racing. Have to say I didn't think it would be that good, as I was quite disappointed by 2002, but this meeting had the old "big meeting" atmosphere that I used to love, and the racing was great quality throughout. :up: Didn't watch the single-seaters, but the BTCC itself was the best I've seen since the Super Touring days, and the Clios and SEATs seemed pretty entertaining, as well. Missed the first Porsche race, but the second one looked good, though it was disappointing that Cleland retired from it (I loved the livery on his car, though - already planning to copy that one for online racing!) Nice to meet Dave Fiddes at last, by the way - bumped into him while wandering past Clark midway through the day, and he recognised myself and KF straight away (while we had no clue who he was until he told us! ) Also good to watch a few races with Norm in the morning and chat for a bit Saw Derek in passing a couple of times as well, but didn't notice anyone else there - I assume TL will have been there, though? Anyone else?
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Post by davefiddes on Aug 8, 2004 19:52:12 GMT
Hi GR, It was good to meet up with you both at long last! Racing turned out to be pretty good. I hadn't bothered with the last few years of the BTCC when they've come up but I was glad I came. Very small field of cars though...don't think there's nearly as much money there as there used to be sadly You're right about the floppies at the chicane though Baz! The drivers weren't taking as much liberties as the Rally drivers the other week (you've not lived until you've seen the chicane taken without using *any* tarmac other than a car's width in the middle!) but not far short. The Renault Clios were particularly crazy. When a safety car was out a marshall (presumably David ) dutifully replaced all three of the floppies. I hoped that at least one of them might survive the 1st restart lap...hah...glad I'm not a betting man. First group through clobbered the outer two and a very wayward backmarker anhilated the last one...wouldn't be so bad if it was even a fast line they were on! KH have some traffic issues to sort out too. It was a bit crazy coming away at night... traffic heading south was trying to get out at the little cottage...and the police traffic control had gone home! :mad: Oh well. Much fun in the sun though. Probably be back next year.
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Post by Dave on Aug 8, 2004 20:26:42 GMT
Was a good day! Excellent racing. I spotted you too Girlracer in the paddock during the last Formula BMW race. Dave.
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Post by Racemania on Aug 8, 2004 20:35:28 GMT
Its okay for some being within easy reach of Knockhill.
Just joking, have to say it was excellent coverage on ITV and Motors TV.
IMHO better than being there. they had an excellent view of the Chicane best I've seen on any TV coverage. When ITV went for a break Motors kept the picture going but fed into Presenters mike so you heard her setting up interviews prior to the races, amateurish but quite funny or is that just my weird sence of humour? Okay they occasionally missed some action but they managed to play it later in the race so can't fault the coverage at all, really excellent.
David how come you didn't replace the floppies or were you attempting to put one back in the final race when Reid chased you back. He looked closer to your shelter than he was to the track! Makes a mockery of Officials saying you have to keep 2 wheels on the tarmac otherwise they will penalise. I suppose they were all at it so no unfair advantage etc. Still it doesn't detract from the obvious 1 rule for Club racing and none for BTCC and their support races. Baz do you think they all decided to take out the floppies and corner cut on mass so that noone could be penalised? From my experience even if everyone did it in club racing only certain people would be penalised. In Legends there are 4 drivers that constantly have all four wheels off the tarmac and they never get penalised, yet if some of the good guys make a unintentional mistake they get an immediate penalty.
So should I try some new lines next weekend?
Ali
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Post by XR2 Baz on Aug 8, 2004 21:06:55 GMT
Baz do you think they all decided to take out the floppies and corner cut on mass so that noone could be penalised? Ha, I was pondering the same myself. I was thinking that we should all make an ungentlemanly 'gentlemans' agreement before the races to cut the chicane. You can't surely exclude everyone Baz
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Post by Mike Hogg on Aug 8, 2004 21:18:41 GMT
IMHO better than being there. they had an excellent view of the Chicane best I've seen on any TV coverage. That was because they had built a massive tower at the chicane! Really enjoyed the day - it had the feeling and atmosphere of the glory days of the BTCC back in the 90s. The Touring Cars actually entertained this time, which was sadly lacking in '01 and '02 and provided some thrills. Think I'll try and watch some more club races at MacIntyre. The Clios and Porsches were pretty good though I was slightly disappointed by the Seats after all the hype - they were so quiet! The single seater races were pretty dull in all honesty, not a lot happened in them. Having said that it was good to see that Brazillian lad in Formula BMW was mostly okay (had a sling I noticed) after he broke his car in two at Duffus!! I've never seen such a badly damaged car - the rear half of the car had completely split away!! Good weather too despite the early fog and dire forecasts - burned once again! Despite the fog delay the rest of the day ran very smoothly and all involved should be congratulated - the whole event was a great success. The parking and traffic system worked very well compared to the chaos of the old days (still not happy about non-pass holders getting parked in the prime spots) though getting out via the cottage would have been pretty dangerous when it was busy (we left late on so it wasn't a problem for us ;D ) Good to finally run into Dave too.
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Post by speedyV on Aug 8, 2004 21:33:04 GMT
A good day, in the end. Didn't see any SCR forumers, possibly due to a) not actually knowing what 95% of them look like, and b) feeling too zombified to notice (see below).
I slept in (not a clever idea when the event is about 100 miles away from your flat), and thus missed the first BTCC race, but the two I did catch were mighty. The sight of Tom Chilton trying to do a Tarquini at Duffus in the second race certainly woke me up, given my short proximity. Support races were a bit on the flat side, but that's probably because I don't follow them terrribly much anymore.
Nice to see the weather fine too, which was a fog- filled nightmare when I reached Perth, yet perfect on arrival at the circuit. If I'd arrived on time, I may have actually got a better spot.......
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Post by norm on Aug 9, 2004 9:34:51 GMT
Was a good day indeed. I arrived fairly early so had an hour to wander round the paddock while the fog delayed the start! Wouldn't be Knockhill if it was sunny all day.
Thought the racing was very good, some tough battles, and some excellent overtaking manoeuvres (was taking mental notes, but not sure I'll ever be able to put them into practice.....!). Was good to see GR, KF and Derek too.
One interesting point was that whilst I enjoyed all the saloon races, I did find the single seaters a lot less entertaining. Clearly as a driver I don't watch races to see people crash, but the "closer" racing allowed by covered wheels does, IMHO, make for more entertaining racing. Or am I just biased cos I race a saloon?
Great to see such a big crowd too. Anyone seen an official attendance figure?
Norm
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Post by marshalette on Aug 9, 2004 11:38:31 GMT
Hi everyone, Glad to hear that you all enjoyed the weekend; I know I did (although I must admit that when I poked my head out the door of the camper van at 7am on Sunday I was sorely tempted to jump straight back into bed!) It wasn't just the Chicane floppies that were demolished - the Green Flag advertising board at the exit of Clarks (I was posted at Railway) was replaced about three times on Sunday morning/early afternoon, but various drivers insisted on flattening it in every race, so the guys with the spare signs just gave up, I think I don't think Philip Glew in his Formula BMW liked our tyre wall much, either (or maybe he liked it a bit too much) because he smashed into it at some speed in their first race. Not entirely sure what happened because it was all pretty quick, but don't think anyone else was involved. The first I saw of it was when he splashed loads of that lovely green 'tyre water' all over the place, just yards from where I was standing (btw, thanks to our observer, Dave, for advising me earlier in the day to stand further back from the exact spot where the car first made contact - are you psychic or something?? ;D) Agree with GR about John Cleland's livery - I thought it was great! Was looking forward to a good battle, between Thompson, Chilton and Turkington, at the back of one of the touring car races, but Chilton went off at the Chicane, I think...? I'll probably never be allowed to forget it, since my bf was the marshal who sat in the car on the back of the hiab when it was returned to the pits. He was like a kid with a new toy (for a few minutes, at least) - I think I'll be hearing about that for a while! ;D ;D (I'm just jealous!) Lisa
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Post by Mike Hogg on Aug 9, 2004 11:51:01 GMT
One interesting point was that whilst I enjoyed all the saloon races, I did find the single seaters a lot less entertaining. Clearly as a driver I don't watch races to see people crash, but the "closer" racing allowed by covered wheels does, IMHO, make for more entertaining racing. Or am I just biased cos I race a saloon? I'm betting that sponsorship has something to do with it... a lot of the young single seat drivers aren't exactly swimming in sponsorship money with the current dodgy economic situation (there were far more sponsors on these cars a few years ago - the four car FRenault team which had no sponsorship on any of the cars as an example) so I'll bet a lot of the drivers are either told to take no excessive risks or if they do bin the car they'll be paying for it... this leads to single seater processions. The obvious exceptions to this are the rich kids (Formula BMW seems to have a few of these, hence some of the cars getting smashed to bits as they don't hold back.)
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Post by dagman16 on Aug 9, 2004 13:03:09 GMT
Oh dear... Floppy time! Well, we were told by the powers that be that folk could cut corners but not excessively, whatever that meant... We did report some folk in, Mussi in the Clios on Saturday suddenly jumped into pole position having cut the chicane by a country mile! His time was removed. In the first Clio race on Saturday afternoon, I was replacing a floppy on virtually every lap much to the amusement of the crowd but on Sunday we virtually gave up. I wasn't actually on the floppy side of the track for the 3 touring car races so wasn't me dicing with Reid! We were busier on the Saturday at the chicane with a few spinners, Kaye's Honda hitting the mini tyre wall, a Formula BMW in the tyres (he did it in testing too... practice makes perfect...), then the big Thompson/Neal shunt which was a pretty hefty one. The doctor got me to sit with James to make sure he didn't collapse as he was pretty shaken. Watching them trying to straighten the car in the evening was interesting! A truck at each end and some rope and PULL! The TV coverage was pretty good but a bit cruel on Tom Chilton who, on screen, just appeared in our gravel trap without showing how he got there. Well, for those who didn't see it, they did show you Muller getting punted at McIntyres but not how he regained the track at chicane... yes, you guessed it, straight into Chilton who went straight into the gravel with broken rear suspension (which is why it took a while to recover. It couldn't move forwards.
Had a great 4 days in mainly excellent weather and some great racing. The TV folk seemed to think so too so hopefully BTCC will be back in 2005?
Regards David
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Post by XR2 Baz on Aug 9, 2004 18:35:55 GMT
So, practically ignoring the chicane isn't classed as corner cutting. Having got round to watching the third race late last night, it was even more amusing to see the first lap at the chicane. I was wondering how long the floppies would last this time, the leader missed them, then second , then third, then two drivers cut the corner soooo much, they still missed them...on the other side Ah well, such is life. Norm, I see where you're coming from about the single seaters, though I have to say it wasn't always like that, and they have been calm for a good few years now. Back in the early days of formula Vauxhall Jr it was mayhem. I remember one race getting red flagged three times after about only two laps each time...they abandoned it given that the drivers couldn't seem to behave. Can't say as I know why it's gone the way it has these days. You can get some brilliant single seater racing, then some of it is below par. Whether it's down to the drivers or funding I've no clue, but I know they ain't cheap to straighten in comparison to saloons...the difference is they are a heck of a lot easier to fix since they're practically designed to crash Baz
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Post by JulianT on Aug 9, 2004 19:43:35 GMT
I was surprised, the touring car races were really good, I can't remember being entertained by the BTCC before. Much better than the F3's, that's for sure. I even watched a couple races on TV (the SEAT hospitality tent had a satellite feed and widescreen TV ) KF, I don't think sponsorship issues are a factor in single seater races being boring. Most drivers in most classes are aware that they are responsible for accident damage. In a single seaters contact usually means retirement, in a saloon they can deliberately hit and lean on each other and get away with it, so on a tight track this is always going to be more entertaining. Also the higher speed and short braking distances of a single seater is a factor.
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IanM
Novice
Posts: 16
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Post by IanM on Aug 9, 2004 21:49:16 GMT
I agree, it was a great day of racing. However, Yvan Muller was crazy trying to rejoin the track where he did. Did the observer at the chicane report him to the Clerk? I am sure Tom Chilton has good cause to feel aggrieved.
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