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Post by murray on Oct 27, 2010 20:24:13 GMT
Hi everyone, I was thinking of buying an old mini as a winter project but now looking at buying an xr2 and entering the XR champs at knockhill next year but I'm not sure where to begin. Currently doing my sums to see if i can afford it. I've been reading through some posts and it seems like a good (cheapish) way to start racing. I have always liked go-karting and have done the silver package at knockhill a few years ago. I am pretty practical on a DIY front and like to get my hands dirty but im no mechanic. I could easy change the oil and filters but don't know much about engines/fueling/suspension setup (yet)
I obviously need a race spec car but along with that i reckon i need... Membership of SMRC ~ £50/yr Race licence ~ £300 XR2 Car ~ £2000+ Car trailer ~ £500+ Towing licence ~ £200 Need a towbar for my car ~ £150 Race entry and running costs ~ £500/race Safety clothing ~ £400
I have a few questions... I know you can spend as much or as little as you want but does that sound realistic? Anything major that I've missed?
Can you keep your car at knockhill? If so anyone know approx how much it costs? This would save me getting towbar/towing licence etc. as I could get family to move it. Though it would maybe be easier if I could move it when i needed to work on it at home or for going to the away round.
I know the ST's race along side the XR's, does this mean the XR's days are numbered? I suppose it depends on entry numbers but I don't want to spend loads on a XR to find out that the XR championship becomes only ST's in the next few years.
last question...who wants to sell me a car?
Thanks for looking, will hopefully get everything in place and be joining you all on the track next year!
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Post by dodski on Oct 28, 2010 14:04:22 GMT
Hi Murray, 6 months ago I was exactly in your position. My budget was around the 5K mark but didn't have a clue where to start. I'm no motor mechanic but have a decent technical back ground. I talked to lots of people and bugged the drivers down at Knockhill - they really are a nice bunch of guys. I listened carefully to the many pearls of wisdom and did the exact opposite of what the majority said. I'm not going to advise you of what is the best way to go is and can only tell you what I did and what I was told.
The easiest way is to call Iain Cowie at ICR down at Knockhill - 07768 581843. He will more than likely know the cars that are up for sale and which ones are worth the cash. He can also tell you the cost of keeping your car at Knockhill. You can buy a car that is all prepped and ready to race. I looked at doing this and saw a couple that were the absolute dogs bollocks. All that was required was to buy the race suit and helmet,( nearer £600 ) fit a transponder (£220) and new tyres (£75 a corner ), enter the race and go. Easy.. 5K spent and you're off racing.
Or
Buy a wreck. Find a car that has been rolled umpteen times, is falling apart at the seams, has more rust than the Titanic and hasn't raced for years. You will be laughed at by your peers, your mates will think you have lost your mind, your wife and/or girlfriend will get severely pissed off with you, and finally, your carefully thought out budget will mean nothing. I was very strongly advised against this route. Ha! What do they know?
I bought a wreck for way less than a grand, and not having a clue what I was doing, set about teaching myself the intricacies of XR2’s. The list of jobs required lengthens exponentially as you uncover more and more problems. Become an expert in deciphering a Haynes manual, get extremely annoyed when you are outbid for spares on ebay, and find out that welding isn't as easy as you thought and blame the crappy Clarke Welder that you got second hand. Get to know your local bodyshop and let the apprentice's spray your car for the price of a crate of lager. Get totally crestfallen when modifications you've made don't appear to be within the rules and get totally drunk when you find out they are ok. Become a hermit in your garage and electrocute yourself trying to rewire everything. Get to the end of your list, have an expert cast an appreciative eye over your hard work. Get another list from the expert with 14 more points on it you hadn't even considered. Contemplate giving up. Swallow your pride and pay to have some of the tricky bits done. Book yourself on a test day, upset the scrutineers and other racers as your car pukes it's entire engine oil content at the entrance to the bay. Fix the problem, apologise profusely when the car goes back to the bay, have the scrutineers (who are already pissed off with you anyway) criticise all your hard work, finally get your ticket, get on the track and realise that you are not the next re-incarnation of Ayrton Senna. Enter the last race of the season and come stone dead last ‘cos you are a crap driver.
But you are racing. You are in your own car that you have saved from certain scrap heap heaven and it is on the track for half of your original budget. It's the best feeling in the world.
Good luck to you whichever way you choose to go.
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Post by Russell on Oct 28, 2010 16:25:34 GMT
So long as you remember that the easiest way isn't always going to be the cheapest way you should do all right. Iain Cowie can sort out everything for you, just like he does for me and a surprising number of others.
In the end, the purchase price of the car is only a small part of your expense! if you're paying for someone to look after the car on race weekends, then you need to budget closer to £1000 for a weekend, which will give you practise the day before - but which won't be enough to pay for bumps.
I think the XR2s have a good few years left in them. There have been rumours / fears of their demise for at least the past 5 or 6 years that I have been coming to Knockhill.
You should probably budget for a small video camera & mount. There are lots of options out there, but even if you never YouTube your movies, it's a lot of fun.
Have fun, and good luck getting ready for the season.
Russell
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Post by oversteer on Oct 28, 2010 18:24:06 GMT
Dodski - That is brilliant, oughta be in Motorsports Now!
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Post by aland on Oct 28, 2010 18:30:56 GMT
they have been saying for years that the XR2's have only a few years left, the minis were supposed to be the replacement. as long as 15 guys are prepared to race them then the series will continue, I reckon they will last another 10 years
as for safety gear, buy the best you can afford including good underwear. yes us marshals will be with you in seconds but if you are on fire the difference between a good and not so good racesuit can be felt. costed the kit roughly on demon tweeks site you are looking at over a grand for decent kit that will last
oh and George, you drove a good safe 1st meeting, you werent crap, you brought the car home in 1 piece, that is what counts
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Post by emicen on Oct 28, 2010 19:48:11 GMT
Don't buy via the demon tweaks/GPR/merlin websites or catalogues, take a day trip. My race suit was off the discount rail, as were my gloves. £400 saved for £40 in diesel
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Post by XR2 Baz on Oct 29, 2010 0:00:02 GMT
XR2's will keep going as long as there are cars and drivers willing to enter them. That's not to say they'll stay at the front of the grid, the ST's will probably eventually get mixed in and run as a Fiesta Championship, which is fine.
Your budget is a good realistic starting point. Given a decent car which doesn't break and little or no damage, you should make a season for that budget if you're running the car yourself. A car in that price range might need some engine work done. Also don't skimp on the trailer, if you bought a cheap one then a dear one you'll be amazed at the difference (I was, made my life much easier). For sure you don't need to buy new, but good used trailers hold their value well. For storage at KH speak to Iain Cowie, make sure you have some arrangements in place to repair and maintain the car in between races.
As for race wear, I will chuck an opinion in the mix. All the race suits and helmets etc. must meet the standards specified in the blue book. There's nothing to say that dearer kit is any safer than cheaper kit, however you may find that dearer kit is more durable and/or comfortable and/or looks better. (for example, helmets, cheap ones might not be very aerodynamic, leading to excessive lift at speed and excess wind noise, important in a single seater but in a saloon car that's not a problem). One thing I will say, there's no substitute for trial fitting, so taking emicen's advice to go to the shop is handy if you have the time.
All the best! Baz
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Post by NS-R on Oct 29, 2010 0:16:10 GMT
dodski - I love your post - that made me laugh out loud - but very, very good advice. You don't need to blow you entire budget on a top banana car but do not go at the bottom end either. I started with a middle-of-the grid car from ICR and basically once I'd learned a bit of race craft, worked my way up by selling my cars and buying a slightly better one from ICR. Buying a trick car doesn't necessarily mean you will be further up the grid anyway - my championship winning car went backwards after I sold it and took some hammering too (no disrespect intended). XRs will be going strong for a while yet - they just never seem to die! :-) Stepping up to STs is a major jump - although running costs (if you don't damage them) are good as they are reliable cars, the tyres are 150 GBP a pop (slick & wet) so it gets pricy very quickly... If you have any specific questions, you can drop me a mail at nick@nicksandersonracing.com any time (I'm currently in Vietnam hence funny posting times). Hope this helps, Nick www.nicksandersonracing.com
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sean
Novice
Posts: 18
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Post by sean on Oct 29, 2010 8:31:28 GMT
Hi Murray, I too was going to enter next year and have a complete set up which i'm now considering selling. Being self employed and the current eco problems has made me nervous about committing to a season. I have a car, suit, hemet, spares,transponder, Etc. Give me a shout if your interested. Not looking to make any money on it just would like it to see it go into battle with someone else. Looks like i'm going to stick to the track car for now. I've even got an Ards pack thats never been used yet....
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Post by murray on Oct 29, 2010 11:27:37 GMT
Thanks everyone for all the useful info, much appreciated. Having a look online I did underestimate the price of safety gear. Think I need to double that. Also missed out the transponder which isn't cheap.
dodski - that sounds like something I would do, lol. Well done seeing it through and getting it finished in time for the last race.
Russell - good idea with the camera, I might get £250 from 'you've been framed' to help pay for the damage when I roll it at the first corner!
Sean - sorry you’re not able to race next season but as I have nothing yet I might take you up on that offer of the complete package. Would obviously depend on sizing’s and price. I don’t even know what an Ard's pack is! You got more details/pics of what you have? Where about in the country are you? (I'm up in Aberdeenshire)
Sorry couple more questions (I’m sure these won’t be the last either) Do you need a pit crew? I might be able to get my dad/brother involved when they’re not busy on the farm but does anyone just turn up on their own?
What about pit girls, are these included in our entry fee? javascript:add("%20;D")
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Post by Charlie on Oct 29, 2010 12:01:41 GMT
Don't forget, all the XR2's and ST's will need to get a raceiver for next year too. (Approx £100)
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Post by awsponsor on Oct 29, 2010 12:34:10 GMT
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Post by emicen on Oct 29, 2010 12:43:38 GMT
Thats s3swiss off here, for sale listing in the classifieds Murray; pit crew, useful but not essential. Grid girls, I wish!
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Post by aland on Oct 29, 2010 14:32:23 GMT
if you are really lucky (well unlucky) and end up in a tyre wall or gravel trap you might get rescued by one of our lovely female marshals, they are good at giving a hug to stressed racing drivers and on occasions a jelly baby or chocolate eclair might be shared
then again you might meet a crabbit bugger like me who will say something like "you made a total arse of that didnt you, or dont worry a bit of t-cut and it will polish out"
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Post by Russell on Oct 29, 2010 16:34:34 GMT
pit crew - another one for Iain Cowie. He has a team of splendid mechanics looking after Team Cowie on race weekends.
He will, of course, charge you for it, but I know I couldn't go out without them.
Russell
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