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Post by NS-R on Oct 1, 2003 7:33:24 GMT
Ian, I may be wrong, but I thought that if it is a "championship" it needs a full MSA permit and they adjudicate on any appeals, complaints whatever. Whereas, a "challenge" was run by the club and any decisions is down to the club committee? I haven't got the "blue book" with me and to be honest, it's not my favorite bed-time reading - just asking out of interest.... Nick www.ns-r.co.uk
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Ian
Novice
Posts: 3
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Post by Ian on Oct 1, 2003 8:05:00 GMT
Terminological accuracy! That is what is required, my friends! A protest is a serious business, and one way of avoiding unnecessary grief, is to use the right words. That’s what is banged into us at MSA seminars.
I can’t believe that an intimate knowledge of the Motorsport Regulations is required to understand that you can’t just go changing the rules of a competition after it has started, just because you don’t like the result. Any sense of natural justice should prevail.
There was never any chance that the event could be a sprint because the venue does not have a track licence. It was a Multi-Use Stage Rally last year and it was a Multi-Use Stage Rally again this year. And if it is to run again next year it will most likely be as a Multi-Use Stage Rally unless a large amount of money is spent to create a sprint track. Since the venue also doubles as the garden of a stately home for 51 weeks of the year, this is unlikely.
Regards, Ian McRae
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Post by gallonsperminute on Oct 1, 2003 10:54:35 GMT
I cannot understand why you are upset by the way Ian has written. If you are involved with the sport you must realise that ALL officials speak down to you. Alas as secetary of the meeting Ian is aware of the facts unlike the majority of those that have had their say on this subject.
As someone involved all year,and there on the day, here are a few facts about Mount Stuart
1/ Maggie Miller was the navigator/passenger of Alan Keiths car. She has a vested interest. She was there because she is the lightest person that could be found to sit alongside Alan Keith. Ali McKeever was forced to changed navigators to do the same.
2/ The whole event was filmed and it was clear that there was no timewasting by Ally McKeever. This was backed up by the officials who investigated 2 protests.
3/ To sight unsportsmanship behaviour as a cause to rearrange the championship to include a shoot out stinks. If anyone was unsporting at MS it was the ICR team who look after Alan Keiths car. The reason was that IC got an entry, ran early on to get an idea of braking points, gears for bends etc. Sadly it would have worked but for IC making a fool of himself by going off and posting the slowest time. Nice try, lots thought of it but decided it was not sporting.
4/ my final point is that Ally won lots of the events and should be seen as a worthy winner. Sadly this does not seem to suit the organisers.
Your comments please and lets have the facts .
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Post by davefiddes on Oct 1, 2003 13:03:23 GMT
I'm beginning to regret asking...
Sounds like a thoroughly disapointing end to the season (I'll let others argue over whether it is a championship or a challenge).
IMHO if all involved feel that it was unfortunate to decide the series at the whim of the weather then, provided it doesn't upset too many rules, have a shootout....but only if everyone is a willing participant.
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Post by Catriona on Oct 1, 2003 15:55:45 GMT
Oh man... it's nice to find out what's happening in the series, but I hadn't anticipated it turning into quite such a big debate I wasn't there, so I don't know the full story (and I don't know who to believe out of the people who were there, either, as it seems to me that Ian and "gallonsperminute" are both very much on the defensive here, and so may well be giving as biased accounts as the ICR people are/might be/whatever you choose to believe), but the more I hear about this, the more I think it's definitely a good idea to have the shoot-out, just so the championship can be decided without all these accusations of foul play. If this is what comes of having the Minis going to all different places in a season, can it become a standard SMRC series for next year, and only run at Knockhill, please, for the sake of our sanity?
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Post by NS-R on Oct 1, 2003 16:16:47 GMT
Just to add to the controversy, today's supplement in the Press & Journal has "Alistair McKever of Montrose taking the title"... For those who aren't aware, Ali lives in Glasgow and Alan is from Montrose (well St Cyrus). Does the P&J know something we don't - make of it what you wish.... Nick www.ns-r.co.uk
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Post by jfin on Oct 1, 2003 17:20:40 GMT
Before making some points and asking some questions I should point out that (a) I was not at the event, (b) my race car is prepared by ICR (this does not mean I will shout the ICR case), (c) I do not have a vested interest in the outcome of the Mini series and (d) do not have an axe to grind or a preference for either Alan Keith or Ali McKeever in this respect.
Ian,
Terminological accuracy is not particularly relevant in posts on an unofficial website where, the point being made relates to the fact that certain people considered all was not as it should have been and registered their point of view through whatever channels were appropriate. Everyone (else) on here knew what was meant.
I find it interesting that you have chosen to ignore many of the points DC made in your latest post. Perhaps you would care to respond now ?
You also seem to be under the impression that someone doesn't like the result and has therefore altered the rules. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to why you have come to that conclusion rather than it being "the right thing to do" based on the circumstances.
The difference between the "event" being a "sprint" rather than a "multi-use stage rally" appears to me to again be irrelevant in the context of the debate here. Perhaps you could enlighten us why my view is incorrect.
Gallonsperminute,
I would firstly like to quote Ian's words - "who are you, anyway ?" I would like to quote Ian, but would not speak to anyone like that so will not ask.
To take the points you make in order :
1) The fact that Maggie Millar may have been Alan's co-driver did not FORCE Ali McKeever to do anything. Ali's choice of co-driver was entirely his own.
2) TV "evidence" can be useful but can also paint an incorrect picture. For example, does it have all the relevant sounds attached to it so we can hear what is said ? Does it show the lead up to events and have discussions with the relevant parties ? Are transcripts of the officials investigations available ?
3) I assume from your comments that you have spoken with IC and confirmed with him, that his reasons for entering were solely as you say and that you have also confirmed with everyone who you say thought about doing the same but didn't because they viewed it as not sporting that this was also the case.
4) Ali McK did win his share of events - fact. He was also involved in a lot of controversy throughout the season - fact. Your statement that his "victory" does not "suit" the organisers seems to me to be simply your opinion. At least there is nothing I can do to confirm it or otherwise I assume perhaps you know something you are not willing to share on this board.
This forum is an unofficial board where anyone can come along and voice their views and opinions. This should be done with the respect you yourself would expect. It appears to me that there is a fair amount of emotion being expressed on this thread, all of it (I would guess) from incomplete knowledge. The thread started off as a gentle notification of the result and has developed so many arms and legs. Let's get back to reality !
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Post by jfin on Oct 1, 2003 17:24:31 GMT
I would just like to point out that the final paragragh in my last post was not directed at any one specific individual. Gallonsperminute, I apologise if the structure of my post made it look like it was directed at you.
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Post by mcgarrett on Oct 1, 2003 19:57:07 GMT
As a disinterested (and to be honest, uninterested - how's that for terminological accuracy?) observer in the Minis challenge / championship I have to say I'm not surprised it's boiled down to this sort of bickering and backbiting.
The whole thing always did seem to have more of an emphasis on 'corporate entertainment', business and eye candy than as an actual sporting event.
Which rather resurrects my earlier comments ('earlier' as in months ago) about how many new fans it drew to motorsport in general - I'd be happy to be proved wrong but the last meeting at Knockhill did not seem adversely affected with regards to spectator figures given the absence of the Minis.
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Post by Racemania on Oct 1, 2003 20:28:59 GMT
Who said Mini's were boring? McGarrett take it all back.
Okay so all the action and excitement seems to be from casual observers or implicated officials.
Pistols at dawn ? I would have thought it would be much more appropriate for the October meeting to be settled by Officials in a Mud wrestling ring!!!
They tell me it relieves stress even better than writing your anger down!
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Post by mcgarrett on Oct 1, 2003 20:34:51 GMT
Who said Mini's were boring? McGarrett take it all back. No can do - sorry. I know I'm in a minority but I've just not got into them. Give it time - I was the same with the Legends for aaaaaaaaaaages.
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Post by NS-R on Oct 2, 2003 9:05:01 GMT
Unoffical update: - Apparently, Ally McKever has refused to take part in any shoot-out (with either Mini's or pistols), and the lawyers are now involved... A rather embarrassing end to the inaugural season then... Nick www.ns-r.co.uk
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Post by Dave on Oct 2, 2003 9:56:43 GMT
I have never head of Ian McRae? Ive heard of Colin McRae though! So who are you more to the point...!?? Ive not really got any interest in the minis so Im adding nothing, I just wish they'd had the Mount Stuart thing some other time and a Knockhill race to finish the season. Dave.
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Post by davefiddes on Oct 2, 2003 12:39:02 GMT
Apparently, Ally McKever has refused to take part in any shoot-out (with either Mini's or pistols), and the lawyers are now involved... Great. Spending money on lawyers rather than race cars sounds like a great way to improve Scottish motorsport! The Mini series really seems to have lost the plot. Wasn't it suposed to be a friendly series for beginning drivers?? When Jamie Clarke took the Legends championship he stopped at the hairpin and shook hands with Colin Noble. IMHO that's the way it should be.
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Post by Charlie on Oct 2, 2003 17:00:30 GMT
Ian McRae Secretary of the Meeting Mount Stuart Motorsport Classic Hmm, Secretary of the Meeting Mount Stuart Motorsport ClassicPerhaps your axe is the one being ground here. Did you take part in any of the proceedings by any chance?
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