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Post by TheRealDC on Sept 22, 2003 18:17:51 GMT
Just spoken with Maggie Miller and, apparently, Ali McKever has won this weekends event (albeit under very controversial circumstances ....). I'm told that two separate appeals were lodged on the day, but both were over-ruled by the Clerk of the Course at the event. Pretty disappointing all round, as its no way to settle a series in my humble opinion .... Cheers .. DC
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Post by jfin on Sept 22, 2003 23:26:27 GMT
ICR tell me that the appeals are not yet over but as you say Dave, whatever happens now, its no way to settle the championship
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Post by NS-R on Sept 23, 2003 7:36:42 GMT
What's the story then? I missed it as we were away at Oulton Park with the BTCC. I got a message from Alan Keith saying that there was a downpour just before his run which meant he lost time. Is there not some sort of rules for a change in conditions or is it just pot luck? For example, when we used to qualify in two sessions, if the conditions were different between the two sessions, the grid was formed in two lines at either side of the grid... Don't know how it works for sprints - anyone? Nick www.ns-r.co.uk
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Post by XR2 Baz on Sept 25, 2003 13:06:11 GMT
I'm involved in a lot of Speed events (hillcimbs mainly) and in short it's just your luck...much like F1's one lap qualifying which saw a Minardi on provisional pole after the French GP's Friday session earlier this year.
Admitedly, it's not entirely fair, and if anyone can figure out a way to keep the track conditions exactly the same for an hour at a time then I'm sure the hillclimb/sprint fraternity would love to hear it!
Baz
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Post by davefiddes on Sept 25, 2003 13:26:46 GMT
So apart from the changeable weather what was there controversy about? (sprinkle with "allegedly" if required )
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Post by TheRealDC on Sept 27, 2003 20:27:01 GMT
The controversy was about Ali McKever NOT allegedly using some "gamesmanship" to slow up proceedings for the last two Minis to take their runs, as rain was beginning to fall, one of whom was Alan Keith.
I just heard today that the SMRC have actually taken some positive action to resolve the issue (amazingly!!). Apparently there is to be a shootout between Alan Keith and Ali McKever at the Oct 19th meeting with each driver taking three timed laps of Knockhill in order to decide the winner of the series. The aim is obviously to have them take these timed runs in identical conditions.
Cheers .. DC
p.s. Again, many thanks to Maggie Miller for making me aware of the outcome.
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Post by Catriona on Sept 27, 2003 20:50:55 GMT
Sounds a great way to resolve the situation there :up: Looking forward to seeing that - considering we've seen the Minis at virtually every meeting, it'll be good to see the final outcome of the championship decided at a club meeting as well
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Post by Blair on Sept 28, 2003 21:15:36 GMT
Maybe I'm missing something but I say hillclimbs are just your luck if the weather changes or not.
Look at F1 tonight, quite possibly JPM lost the chance to be WDC over the sake of rain at the wrong time.
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Ian
Novice
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Post by Ian on Sept 30, 2003 20:08:24 GMT
I can’t believe that the SMRC officials are so out of touch with reality (Never mind the MSA regulations!) that they think they can just add an event at a whim. May I suggest that you read Section X of the Motorsport Regulations, chaps?
May I also correct some other misconceptions which have been posted on this site? First of all, for the benefit of NS-R, XR2 Baz, and touringlegend, it was not a sprint, it was a stage rally, run under Section K of the Motorsport Regulations. I see the SMRC home page makes the same mistake
For the Real DC, two PROTESTS (not appeals) were lodged, and the Clerk of the Course decided that there was no evidence to warrant a penalty against car no 99. This decision was then APPEALED to the MSA Steward, who came to the same decision as the Clerk of the Course.
I hope Aly McKever has more sense than to fall for the shoot-out idea. In fact the whole thing sounds to me like it would be on thin ice with respect to the Motorsport Regulations. Still, I’m sure the SMRC will have checked all that out.
And another thing … what if Aly McKever wins the shoot out? What then? Pistols at dawn?
Ian McRae Secretary of the Meeting Mount Stuart Motorsport Classic
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Post by Catriona on Sept 30, 2003 20:32:57 GMT
I can see your point, there... although I was given to understand that the Mini's aren't an official "championship" as such, but a "challenge" - dunno what difference that makes, as I don't know the rules and regulations covering such things, but I think it makes some kind of difference in how they can be run :confused:
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Ian
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Post by Ian on Sept 30, 2003 21:44:24 GMT
Read Articles SR1.1 & SR2.1 of the Championship, sorry, Challenge, regulations. I don't think you'll get away with playing with words. Who are you anyway?
Ian McRae
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Post by Blair on Sept 30, 2003 22:34:07 GMT
We're all fans, Ian.
Many of us don't have the privilege of being furnished with regulations so refering to them is rather pointless to say the least.
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Post by Catriona on Sept 30, 2003 23:21:40 GMT
Read Articles SR1.1 & SR2.1 of the Championship, sorry, Challenge, regulations. I don't think you'll get away with playing with words. Who are you anyway? Ian McRae Nice attitude there... as touringlegend says, a lot of us here are fans, and as such have no way to check the rules and regulations of the sport. From the way you write, I take it you think I have some connection to the SMRC, but I am just a fan who enjoys following the sport, and who has put the time into creating an unofficial website covering it. I am not even currently a member of the SMRC (intending to get a non-racing membership next season), so certainly have no connection to them. I have to say your condescending manner and accusations of "playing with words" are not likely to make many people here see your point.
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Post by Mike Hogg on Sept 30, 2003 23:21:54 GMT
Read Articles SR1.1 & SR2.1 of the Championship, sorry, Challenge, regulations. I don't think you'll get away with playing with words. Who are you anyway? Ian McRae Is this how you speak to everyone? GR isn't anything to do with the SMRC and this isn't an SMRC affiliated website/forum and never will be. Would be an idea to get your facts straight before insulting a board administrator.
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Post by TheRealDC on Sept 30, 2003 23:48:04 GMT
Congratulations Ian
You seem to have managed to offend a large number of people with a remarkably small number of posts here! Just to stir things up a little further, here are a few more comments :-
1. I made it clear in my original post that my source for this information was very much third hand i.e. Maggie was at the event, but she is not a competitor and she and I simply had a phone conversation, therefore, it was never intended to be a verbatim account of the events on the day. The comments were my recollection of that conversation which was based upon Maggies recollection of the day!
2. I, like many others, have no access to the Mini regulations, as these regulations were not included in the SMRC competitors yearbook and are not available on the SMRC web-site, so even other competitors would be unlikely to have any knowledge of these.
3. Appeals naturally follow protests. Yet you then have the nerve to nit-pick other peoples comments. The real issue here was that other competitors were indeed unhappy about the manner in which Mr McKever conducted himself on the day. I believe that there "may" be something in the Mini regulations regarding unsportsmanlike conduct?
4. If Montoya spotted rain coming while he completed his qualifying lap and then stopped on the track during his cooling down lap long enough to ensure that Schumacher (Michael, of course:D) was forced to take his qualifying lap on a much wetter track, I'm pretty sure that Ferrari would also lodge a PROTEST and subsequent appeals. I'm also sure that the FIA would take some action to penalise Montoya for doing so.
5. The SMRC web site stated that it was to be a sprint as that is what was originally intended. I believe that there was some issue regarding running a sprint at this event (memory fails me as to why), hence the need for Mini competitors to find passengers to sit beside them at short notice.
6. No matter what the regulations state, surely common sense ought to prevail in circumstances like this? It was clear from private comments made to me by several witnesses to the events of that day exactly what was being done and why. Clearly, the SMRC have also for once taken a stance on this, by their proposed solution.
7. Pistols at dawn? Nice idea, but I doubt that the regulations would permit that ...
Again, these are purely my opinion on the subject based upon the descriptions of what took place on the day. While I respect your right to make your opinions known Ian, please also allow others to express theirs without shooting them down for minor innaccuracies or for lacking an intimate knowledge of the extremely dry subject matter of the MSA yearbook.
Cheers .. DC
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