Anyone out in the STs?

[Mike Strong]

Saw a few videos on Youtube from the trackday held on the 1st November.

At least one ICR ST on track; plus, I think, Stewart Scott's?

Anyone know who was out in them?

Things are a bit slow round here so I thought I'd at least ask...

[Dave]

There was 4 places booked on the trackday.

Dont know who was driving them but from the pictures I seen the cars were ex Forrest car, Ross McColm, Ryan Stirling, Stewart Scott.


On another point... Who is going to be out in ST's next year?

I cant see too many people rushing to join a ST Cup that start behind a race series?? Could be wrong.

[Blair]

There were more than 4 cars out, they all just alternated as there were only 4 spaces booked by ICR. I was out in one ICR ST and there was numerous others driving so track time was limited, so if you've seen some good driving in the videos probability is it wasn't me.

I'm not so sure Dave, whilst for me the ST was a bit of fun there's plenty of interest I think, there will be at least points and prizes to race for in 2009, and who knows about the year after ?

[XR2 Baz]

Why not race in the ST's? To be honest, I think that what's happening with the ST's is spot on. We can't become an ST championship overnight as there's still a fair difference in cost for the majority of guys and gal who run in XR2's. For 2010 maybe things will be different. I know a number of drivers are looking to ST's for 2009 but still not enough to make a championship (to MSA regs). As costs come down, I expect this will change, and maybe then it will become a Fiesta championship, who knows, it's all up to the SMRC.

I think that taking the route of sticking to the National rules is a very good way to go. It means the ST's can compete on a national level whereas the XR2's have allegedly drifted apart from the English XR championship in terms of spec and we can't compete with them now, if what I hear is right. Apparently that's largely down to our championship being very well regulated, which is how it should be.

Here's a thought...the XR2's will be eligable for the Classic Sports and Saloons soon

Baz

[stu39green]

I agree Baz - ST's are the way to go hence why I have been looking seriously over the last month or so. Will be interesting to see what happens in 2010 as there is talk of double figures ST's out next year.

From recent experience they are definitely a step up....

Don't know if anyone involved in helping myself and Stewart out of the car last weekend log in here, but a big thanks. Can't really remember how long I was dangling there but crew were very quick to the scene and very efficient.

My first roll and hopefully last.

[Dave]

Was sorry to hear about that Stuart glad your ok.

What I meant by I cant see too many people rushing to join a ST Cup starting behind a series was: This year its all been amicable, the ST's were just taking part for fun so the XR's wouldn't block them and the ST's wouldn't do anything silly. (Although they were starting to towards the end of the year).

Now imagine next year when ST's are a race within a race. They will be barging past the XR2's. The XR2's will get the hump. There will be knocks and bumps. The crowd will be confused that the winner of the race isnt infact the winner. I can see it turning messy. The ST cars can be expensive and parts are defo expensive.

That said Im sure most people want them to have their own race series and this is probably the only way to work up to that.

[stu39green]

Thanks Dave -much appreciated They defintely handle differently as I found out at Leslies. A bit tail happy through there unlike my XR2.

Spoke to Stewart S this afternoon. Still sore.....but in fine form. I'm fully recovered except for an old healed foot fracture which I think I might have redone!!

I got off lightly by comparison - probably the full harness helped unliked Stewart's temp one. I was on in lap, but you have to watch them when slicks are cold. Loads of understeer until they heat up.

SMRC will not go for this but putting ST's at front of grid might help? XR2's starting at same time.

Stuart

[aland]

IMO the best place to put the st's is at the front of the grid as you could see this year they were catching the backmarkers in the XR2's too fast but at least all drivers behaved, you couldnt use a blue flag this year as the st's werent trying to lap the xr2's. as for whether the st's will ever have a series of their own I doubt it as the XR's are going to live forever, the only way to have a st series is to bin the minis but their grids have been climbing this year

[Dave]

Interesting comments Alan. The next couple of years will be interesting to see if ST's kick off or fall flat on their face in Scotland.

Interesting you mention the minis as ST's seem mini money... So surely if the XR guys had that type of money to be racing a new car they would be in minis? The XR2's are always billed as budget racing (5-10k?) so why suddenly are they all going to do expensive racing? (15-20k?)

XR2 racing drivers lottery sindicate anyone?

[Blair]

Couldn't use a blue flag ? I am sure I've had one waved at me before an ST zooms by! (And no thats not when they're lapping me as happened at last meeting! ;D )

The SMRC has said in wheelspin the ST's will start at the back of the grid still next year. If the grid was mixed - i.e. as we all qualified then personally I reckon we should all be on the same tyres.

[brakedisc]

"Interesting you mention the minis as ST's seem mini money... So surely if the XR guys had that type of money to be racing a new car they would be in minis? The XR2's are always billed as budget racing (5-10k?) so why suddenly are they all going to do expensive racing? (15-20k?) "

Common sense at last. SMRC needs an entry level formula and at the moment the old XR2 is doing a grand job. If it needs replacing why not go for base model Fiesta rather than limited supply ST.

[Mike Hogg]

It would be madness to do anything but keep the XR2s as top billed Fiesta for the next few years. I'm sure the economic situation is lost on no-one here, regardless of how rich or otherwise they may be. If the XR2s were replaced with a field of 10-15 STs (and that's an optimistic view) then there would be no entry level formulas left in the SMRC.

[aland]

okay perhaps a weebit of forward thinking here, right the XR2 guys cant afford to build a new ST, so hos about making the xr2 more competitive, is it possible to fit a 2 litre or 1.6 zetec engine into a xr2, space wise I reckon it is do-able but would need one of you expert engineers to comment as that engine is plentiful in scrappies

or leave the XR2's as they are and put the ST's in with a overhauled S&S series, lets be honest the S&S has been a wee bit boring this year, I would suggest banning the uber-cars I.E the fords fitted with massive turbos etc, leave the escort cossy as that was how faither henry intended it. it would be interesting to see how a st would fare against the caterhams etc. Rob Lawson did well enough in his clio earlier this year and a clio must be about the same spec wise as a ST. that was not intended as a henicke style rant BTW

thats my opinions

[Dave]

Im considering taking my Clio Cup out next year and No, they are not comparable with a Fiesta ST. Not by a long chalk.

I dont think the engines are the problem with the XR2's. 2.0 Zetec does fit in easy enough.

[norm]

(Sorry for dragging this further off topic, and further into a topic that has been discussed every 6 months since the forum began!)

Personally I think that:

1) the XR2s can only have 3-5 years left due to the availability of bits and the problems of running a 25+ year old car (I know this point is debatable, but if there was a valid alternative then I think that people would move on! All I know is that I found it very frustrating having so many small things go wrong and ruin my race weekend)

2) I don't see changing engine alone being enough to get round the problems of point 1

3) if I had the money to race an ST, I'd have been racing a Caterham or Mini for the last few years

4) therefore something else needs to be introduced as the next "entry level" formula.

5) Still don't quite understand why the Fiesta Si (or similar) couldn't be the new entry level formula? There is a whole spectrum of stuff between a Mk2 XR2 and a modern ST. I'm no expert, but I thought there were loads of Si type cars out there for £4k ish? Why not turn the Scottish XR2 championship into the Scottish Fiesta championship, and let everyone decide whether they spend £2k (and a lot of elbow grease), £5k, or £20k on buying/preparing a car?

In fact, maybe I'll see if I can set up a voting thing......