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Post by mcgarrett on May 5, 2003 21:20:07 GMT
I think it is very unfair to pick on them at such an early stage, and I certainly don't think that they are getting coverage at the expense of any of the other championships - in every article I've seen whether it be in local or national press the other series' get mentioned just as often. I agree with stuntdriver to a certain extent in that I'm not sure I follow the logic of saying that somehow the Mini's are being given coverage at the expense of the other series. IMHO coverage / promotion of the other series was fairly minimal and this hasn't changed. The point of the hefty registration fees also paying for the 'frills' seems logical too - a good point well made. In the end it boils down to whether or not it is fun to watch and this will always be a matter of personal taste. For what it's worth my 2p worth is that they are an attempt to appeal to a mass market (the more cynical might make mutterings about 'eye candy' here). If this generates revenues at the gate that will benefit the sport/circuit as a whole then this can only be a good thing, surely. However, I think that there is a worry that perhaps the whole 'more spectators' phenomenon is merely the presence of corporate freeloaders. I hope this isn't the case, as no doubt interest from such quarters will soon dry up, leading inevitably to a reluctance to invest in any new, innovative series in future. |
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Post by stuntdriver on May 5, 2003 22:09:14 GMT
Not sure what you mean by a corporate freeloader - surely these corporate spectators pay for the benefit of being there through sponsorship, and a heck of a lot more than paying at the gate! Not much difference than taking clients to see the horse racing, rugby, or football - much more exciting anyway! What is IMHO by the way??!!
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Post by Mike Hogg on May 5, 2003 22:44:09 GMT
I think a lot of the Mini "guests" get free tickets anyway and don't have to actually pay anything to get in... however they come for the Minis, hopefully see the XR2s, Legends etc, are entertained and spread the word. Which can only be a good thing.
But I still say the Mini's have a long way to go to be on a par with the XR's at the moment.
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Post by mcgarrett on May 6, 2003 7:25:05 GMT
Not sure what you mean by a corporate freeloader - surely these corporate spectators pay for the benefit of being there through sponsorship, and a heck of a lot more than paying at the gate! Not much difference than taking clients to see the horse racing, rugby, or football - much more exciting anyway! What is IMHO by the way??!! Maybe I was being a bit harsh with the term 'corporate freeloader' - KF puts it much more diplomatically as 'guests'. The gist of what I was saying is that it *may* be that a fair few of the extra spectators that are around due to the advent of the minis are simply there as corporate guests. In other words they're there for a free jolly and won't be back. If this is the case (and I'm only playing devil's advocate here) then the 'interest' generated by the minis will be transitory and will not carry over into the other series as some people hope. As I say, I'm playing devil's advocate. The minis have enormous potential to generate mass appeal which can only be of benefit all round. (IMHO - In my humble opinion) |
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Post by Charlie on May 6, 2003 19:17:58 GMT
Plus I don't remember the last time I saw an XR2 hitting the tyre wall on the main straight at 70mph! Peter Cruickshank XR2 mid season 2002 John Muir Toyota mid season 2002 at far higher speeds. But what the ****'s that got to do with racing or entertainment. Shunt's like that just ruin races and spoil them both for the drivers and spectators (not to mention the marshals having to come out of their nice warm hut's  ). Racing is much better enjoyed with a full flowing race and although there will be some contact when races are tight and close it's not what most of us want to see  |
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Post by davefiddes on May 6, 2003 19:58:17 GMT
True. Bent racing cars are no fun for anyone...
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Post by stuntdriver on May 7, 2003 19:18:29 GMT
I agree completely - I wasn't saying that shunts like that were good, I was merely pointing out that that there was "wheel to wheel racing" in the Minis.
In terms of the corporate spectators I'm sure some of them might only come once, but those who do will be replaced with new "new to club motorsport" spectators at the next event, and hopefully many of the ones who come get hooked and come back for more!!
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Post by Racemania on May 7, 2003 20:08:40 GMT
Hey you guys The question was directed at spectators not Drivers. I remember at Inglston back in the 70's I think it was ?? Pinkerton?? crashing his Imp and it burst into flames.He was rushed off to hospital but when the burnt wreck came back to the pits all the drivers ignored it and didn't speak about the accident except to inquire how he was, but there were hundreds of spectators clamering to see it. Some regretting not seeing the incident etc. ... A lot of spectators unfortunately have a different outlook on racing than us drivers. Okay if the lead is swapping every 2nd lap you will hold their attention but if its a procession then they need crashes!! Sad but true!
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Post by jaffa6 on May 7, 2003 20:39:31 GMT
Racemania makes a very valid point. Yes a lot of us fans are there to see racing and enjoy the spectacle of the cars/drivers putting their respective skills up against one another. But a percentage (large percentage IMHO) are more interested in who hits what, when, where and how fast.
If you are standing in a crowd the only time there is a big reaction is when someone goes off and most people are clammering to get a better view. Basically they WANT to see people go off/spectacular accidents etc. Now, I'm NOT saying they neccessarily don't care about the drivers, I honestly believe NO-ONE wants to see anyone hurt but they do want to see big shunts.
I'm prepared to bet that if you took a poll of people leaving the circuit after a days racing, and you ask them the highlight of their day, a large group of them will mention a shunt of some sort. It is, to a certain extent, the nature of the beast (as they say...lol).
A few years back ( can't recall exactly when/who etc ) there was a huge shunt during one of the single seater races on the start/finish straight when the leader slowed as the safety car came out but the guys behind couldn't see and began overtaking then realised why the leader had slowed and the result was cars, literally, flying all over the track. Thankfully no-one was badly hurt but there were people RUNNING from all around the circuit just to see the carnage. It was on the big screen that was set up next to the comentary tower ( must have been the BTCC meeting ) and when people saw what had happened on the screen they wanted to see it for real. As racemania says "sad but true" it's what a lot of people watch motorsport for.
Jaffa6
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Post by davefiddes on May 7, 2003 21:33:51 GMT
Motorsport is the thrill of the chase. It's a base emotion. It's why we get a kick from the speed, the car control and the death defying overtaking maneuvers. However, the herd will always guffaw when the sabre tooth tiger gets the caveman...and be desperate to oogle him being pulled limb from limb safe in the knowledge that it's not them... IMO I guess what we the "true" fans, drivers, officials have to do is to tread the fine line between keeping things a fun and safe sport for all participants whilst keeping it spectacular enough to keep the raving mob interested enough. As sadly without the raving mob non-televised motorsport is just going to keep slipping towards becoming a glorified trackday entirely supported by the personal funds of the participants. Appologies if my comments are off base or just complete bunk  |
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Post by jaffa6 on May 7, 2003 23:04:54 GMT
No, I have to agree completely Dave, the masses are what attracts TV/sponsors/money into motorsports and we need to keep the interest going for the crowds to stay big and prevent tracks, like Knockhill, sinking without a trace. But without putting any more danger in the way of the competitors/marshall etc.
Maybe "true" fans/official/drivers tend to look just as much behind the scenes too and can appreciate the sacrifices, commitment and struggles a lot of these guys have to go through just to get a car to the start line for a race and that, for me, can make it all the better when some unknown guy from the back, who has sold just about all he owns to be racing, is mixing it at the front.
And let's not kid ourselves, motorsport in general is not as big worldwide as it has been in the past, hopefully it's just part of the cycle and will pick up again but even Britains "premier" circuits are finding it hard so it must be a nightmare for places like Knockhill, Croft etc....
So I guess the masses who do follow their "primal urges" are a neccessary evil.
Or am I just rambling...lol ?
Jaffa6
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Post by NS-R on May 8, 2003 7:12:00 GMT
Jaffa6 - if I remember correctly, it was the Formula Renault BTCC support race a couple of years ago. The SC sign came out at the start/finish line but there was no signal at the hairpin and the drivers couldn't see - that really coul dhave been a nasty one - luckily noone was hurt...
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Post by Dave on May 8, 2003 9:08:18 GMT
I agree with Charlie, its about the racing not the crashes, thats whats wrong with these silly Knockhill trackdays as half of the max power immiture audience just want to see crashes!  As for the Formula Renault incident this happened on my first year of marshalling and guess where I was - on the post on the main straight just before the pit lane! I was a trainee watched as the second pack flew over the hill after the first only just crawling over it, then bang! I said at the time should we not have had the sc board out or be signalling the drivers to slow down but was told no! I then had quick heated discussion when we returned to the post after cleaning it all up - I was annoyed but appartantly wrong, we werent allowed to do anything? Dave. |
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Post by NS-R on May 8, 2003 9:14:20 GMT
Mmmmm..we seem to have gone a bit "off topic" again.. "Spectators - how do you rate the minis" To try to sum up what everyone seems to be saying is that it's good for the club and scottish racing in general although the racing may not be as spectacular as some other series, maybe due to costs... Personally, I'd love to have a go if I happened to have a spare 20K kicking about...let's see how the season pans out... Nick www.ns-r.co.uk |
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Post by Dave on May 8, 2003 12:24:40 GMT
20k  You could buy 10 sensibly priced XR2's or that or almost 2 brand new factory legends! Please tell me they're not paying 20k for a mini? Dave. |
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